Navigating Expectations in Friendships with Jenna Schroeder

Navigating Expectations in Friendships 

In this insightful episode of Steps to Trusting, Erin Michele explores the complex nature of friendship with Jenna Schroeder, a doula, dance instructor, child advocate, writer, and a mom. The conversation revolves around viewing friendship as a divine gift, managing expectations, and the importance of vulnerability and authenticity. They delve into how pressures between friends can turn friendship expectations into burdens, but vulnerability and honest communication in friendships can help prevent misunderstandings and unmet expectations. Jenna shares her personal experiences and discusses how different seasons of life affect our capacity to maintain friendships, highlighting the need for grace and understanding. The discussion also emphasizes the significance of turning to God and recognizing His provision through diverse friendships. 

Bible verses referenced include James 4:2-3, Psalm 121, Psalm 119:176, John 20:27, James 1:17, and Ephesians 2:10.

00:00 Welcome to Steps to Trusting

00:21 The Gift of Friendship

00:35 Introducing Jenna Schroeder

00:55 The Joy of True Friendship

02:21 Navigating Friendship Expectations

03:36 The Challenge of Vulnerability

05:31 The Importance of Belonging

09:08 Managing Friendship Expectations

16:24 Balancing Expectations and Reality

23:11 Seeking Support and Setting Boundaries

We would love to hear from you.  

Connect with Erin Michele Smith at www.erinmichele.net

 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stepstotrusting/ 

Connect with Jenna A Schroeder:

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/jennaaschroeder/  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jennaaschroeder 

online: http://www.jennaaschroeder.com 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Erin: Hi, I'm Erin Michelle. You found yourselves at Steps to Trusting, where it's my goal to meet you where you are in your faith journey and to encourage you to continue to transfer trust from yourself and your actions to the God who is enough.

[00:00:12] If you are like me, and you need to be reminded over and over that you never had to do it all, that you don't need to be enough because we trust a God who is, then you are in the right place.

[00:00:23] You guys may know that I love talking about friendships. So today's conversation has me excited. We're going to start with the truth that friendship is a gift from God. However, we're going to get real about how expectations and friendships can feel more like a burden than a gift. If you've felt the pressure to earn friendship, By being enough, this podcast episode is for you.

[00:00:41] I'm joined by Jenna Schroeder. Among her many titles, Jenna is a doula, dance instructor, child advocate, writer, and a mom. In all these spaces, she seeks to help women overcome fear and embrace who they are authentically so they can step into more joy in their lives. Jenna, thank you for joining me today

[00:00:59] Jenna: Thank you for having

[00:01:00] Erin: I'm glad you could come. So I did want to jump in to the idea of friendship how does receiving the gift of friendship feel and what are its benefits? 

[00:01:11] Jenna: Hmm. That's a great question. think receiving the gift of friendship. I think it feels like joy because it helps you to have someone else to celebrate those moments in your life that are really important to you. When you're going through a hard time, you have someone to lean on. And I feel that, God created friendship to be woven into that fabric of who we are to live our lives together in community. So to me. Friendship feels like joy. And honoring and how we are probably meant to live as humans together.

[00:01:47] Erin: Yeah. I love that. And even just like when I think about it feels like joy, I think of the, the belonging and the, the desire to be known and all of that seems like it just feels like something is as it's supposed to be. And that feels like the overflow of joy. 

[00:02:04] Jenna: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's so easy to feel alone and we can. Do our life alone and we are set up to kind of be alone and in many ways and culturally, so that's why I think friendship is absolutely so important. I think God wants that for us for sure. 

[00:02:22] Erin: So when you think of friendship as a gift, where did you learn that concept of friendship? 

[00:02:28] Jenna: Growing up, we moved around a lot and I was always the new girl. Quite often. And so often in my life, I had to, break friendships because I moved away and then restart again. And so I remember pretty poignantly one move in particular. I felt like. I really want friends. I don't want to be alone. I don't want to feel isolated. And so I really need to step up and, be a little bit, maybe more outgoing than I felt and try to create new friendships because I knew it was something I didn't want to be without.

[00:03:00] Cause I had felt that already being a new girl over and over again. So I, I think I probably learned it at a pretty young age that a true friendship, a good friendship is really important.

[00:03:10] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. And what you just said there, I just And I'll hear kind of competing things about what we were going to talk about. And I think I'd love to dive into them. So I'm just kind of thinking about, like you said, you kind of had to step up and, and take a risk and maybe step outside of your comfort zone.

[00:03:25] So maybe being a little bit different from what feels natural. But also like when we do think about friendships, we want to be in a friendship that, that we can be fully ourselves. it takes stepping out of our comfort zone to step into like being a place where it's safe to be yourself. 

[00:03:41] Jenna: I think I innately. I am wired to connect with people and to want to feel that deeper relationship and connect with people on a deeper level. I really struggle when it's just surface, and so I think even as I'm thinking about this, even in those moments when I was a new girl and I wasn't getting that reciprocation back at every, at each move, and I remember specifically when I did, and I think Maybe that's it that I felt like maybe I have to be a little bit more open, a little bit more outgoing so people can get to know me more. Because so far I hadn't quite found it. I hadn't quite found those friends. And I think I was always searching for that same reciprocity. I don't know how to say that word for it to be reciprocated in a similar way. It to be positive and it to be fulfilling and it to feel like I felt Like I could be myself and I felt welcomed especially certain times that, you know, it was like those middle school time moves, which are super hard, middle school's hard anyway. And then you're, you're trying to integrate yourself into new space, but the people already have their people. But I think even as an adult, you find yourself in those situations many times over and you want to be accepted for yourself and you should be accepted and honored and loved as who you are. And I, I think it's important to find people that are going to love you for who you are and provide that same level of vulnerability and kindness and being intentional that you also give. 

[00:05:14] Erin: I would totally, I would totally agree with all of that and just all of what you described I think is, is something that we need. I think we really have like a built in God given need to feel that belonging and be known and be seen. Right. And so lonely. When you can't be yourself, when you have to show up in a place as, what do I have to do to fit in this place as opposed to show up as who you are and be loved and, and seen as who you are. 

[00:05:42] Jenna: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think too, I think sometimes we end up in those places and we realize we're trying to conform to a person that we are not. I've certainly experienced that before when it took me a while to realize, I'm in this friendship group or what have you. And I come home feeling disappointed or hurt or, like it didn't connect, like no one was connecting with me or asking me questions.

[00:06:06] And I think sometimes we realize we're trying to fit into a space. That is not this is not the space for us. Right. And a friend of mine once told me this, and it has really stuck with me that I want to be in a place where I'm celebrated and not tolerated. And I think when we end up in those places, when we're at a table where we're just being tolerated, and we're not being celebrated for who we are I think that there's a really big difference in that.

[00:06:32] And it might take a while for your spirit to catch up to it or to realize that you're not in the right place. Spot for you. But when it does, and when you do find the places with friendships, when you have cultivated a community and created those friendships and found the people that are celebrating you for who you are I think that's when the , real community and real, real joy can begin because you, you are yourself and you can be intimate and, and trust, those people because they are, they love who you are.

[00:07:02] You know, without you changing who you

[00:07:03] are. 

[00:07:04] Erin: Yeah, I, I was just thinking, I heard a quote recently, I won't quote it exactly right. And I don't even know who said it, but he said the opposite of belonging is fitting in. And I just thought that was so interesting is like, when you, when you change yourself to fit into a place, you don't actually belong.

[00:07:22] You might fit there. You might sit at the table, but you're not celebrated. As who you are, you're just tolerated, or maybe you're even just hiding the truth of who you are. 

[00:07:32] Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, oh wow, I love that. I love that. That is so true. I think about too, when, you know, in the, in the garden of Eden and, you know, Adam and Eve are hiding, right, they're hiding cause they, they, they sinned and they made a mistake and that idea of hiding yourself, you know, just comes to my mind and how, like, how God came out and he's like, where are you?

[00:07:55] Where are you hiding? You know, tell me, tell me the truth. What's going on. And I think that that might be the. Biggest place, I think, where friendships can either suffer or they can really grow. If we're hiding who we are or we're hiding maybe how we're feeling, like if you're disappointed in a friendship or if someone's disappointed in you think that's where, bitterness could grow, insecurities, jealousy, whatever, it can really wreak havoc. But when we don't hide and we're honest with Our expectations with how we're feeling with, our fears or what we're going through. I think that is really where friendships can really deepen and grow and be that gift that we want. But if we hide. It's really, really hard, to feel known and to feel like you belong cause you're, your whole self isn't being accepted or you're not getting what you need out of it.

[00:08:48] Cause you're, cause you're hiding

[00:08:49] that. 

[00:08:50] Erin: I have some questions here about expectations too. And I just, I love how you brought that in there, but what do you think are some expectations that people have in friendship that can make it turn from something that should feel like the gift that it is to feel like a burden of showing up under those expectations? 

[00:09:08] Jenna: I think the thing is, is that we are all wired differently, right? What we're created differently, we have different personalities and we tend to bring to the table what we bring to the table. We tend to expect the same thing back. Right. I am an empath. I'm a very sensitive person.

[00:09:23] And so in my friendships, I don't have a problem being there for people when things are hard. In fact, I feel used in a good way. I feel like I'm a gift in that way that I want to be there for people in that time when they're grieving or something, you know, is going wrong, it's really hard.

[00:09:40] And I expect that same. Thing in return. So it has been a struggle for me sometimes when I haven't received that back, because I'm expecting that. And I'm expecting someone who maybe isn't wired like that. Maybe they're afraid of those things. They might not know what to say.

[00:09:54] And so they don't say anything and it's not because necessarily they don't want to be a good friend to me, but their own fears or their own tendencies, Maybe don't meet me there and then I can be left disappointed and then the same thing I think can happen on the reverse.

[00:10:12] So I, I think that there's the expectation of what we're bringing to the table. We expect the same thing back. And then there's, in some levels, I believe that in a vulnerable level, I do feel like there should be an equal exchange of vulnerability. I think that that's important because if you're being vulnerable and your friend is not, you can walk away feeling like feeling, oh, I just, you know, I just unloaded and you feel even more vulnerable, right?

[00:10:37] Cause. Because you feel like that exchange wasn't equal. So I do, I do think that it is important that there's a similar level of vulnerability. But I think in general, we expect. To get what we give and we expect what our same personalities are, and you're not gonna get that. Right. If you're the fun, fun person and you bring the party and people love that about you, right?

[00:10:58] Like, this person is so fun to be around. You kind of expect that person to always show up like that, right? And that's a gift. And then, but then what if they don't? Right? Like you know, and what if they don't show up like that and you expected that of them? And, and can we be there for each other when we're all different? And I think, I think knowing your own personality and understanding the personality of other people can really be helpful. And see like, oh, okay, this is their strength, you know, or, or this is where it's not their strength, but we can teach each other too.

[00:11:29] I have a lot of friendships that that I have learned through my doula practice and through other ways as well in being there for people in those hard spaces. And the more I do that, the more I see, I can help my other friends to see it's important to me, but I have to reach out to, and I have to say, hey, what's up? Hey, you know, I'm struggling. Can you be here with me in, in this? I'm not sure if that answers your

[00:11:52] question. 

[00:11:53] Erin: mean, you shared a lot of great points and I just, I relate to a lot of it. I think one that's standing out is that when somebody shows up as like the party starter and you expect them to just continue to show up that way, it becomes an expectation and I think that there's actually growth and I think 

[00:12:10] you were touching on that too. There's growth that needs to happen. I think sometimes in both people, as we allow people to show up differently, like there's a different need right here. And so that they are going to show up in a different way and I need to grow to accept them as they are and see that part of their personality or that part of their need, rather than just like, they're just in this box, how I've always seen them.

[00:12:33] And I think that it takes growth on the other side too, you know, for your other example of saying, like, this person may not be able to show up with empathy as a natural response, but maybe in receiving empathy and love and care in that way, they might be able to grow and reciprocate though, they don't feel comfortable in that space.

[00:12:54] Right. So it's like, so interesting to think about how do we hold expectations? Not as like a measurement of our friendship, but instead as a place where we could see our needs and see where growth is available. I think one of the biggest lessons for me is that thinking that it's the friend who needs to show up and fill a specific need because they have, and so like having the growth in myself, even to just say that, okay, people are limited and not be able to continue to show up in the same way.

[00:13:25] No, 

[00:13:27] Jenna: That's a good point. And I think too, to what you're saying is even if you're in a conversation, or if you're going through something, have you ever thought about, oh, you know, I really need to talk to a friend, but I'm going to call this friend specifically because I know that this friend is very good at listening, or this friend is really good at problem solving, or this one will probably help me to laugh about it. Have you ever done that?

[00:13:51] Erin: I love that point too. It's really neat to think about. Even it just makes me think of the body of Christ. Right. And it's like how we work together and, and how we can start to understand how people will help us out in those different specific situations. And that does lead me back to that, point I said we were going to talk about in the, in the intro, but that it's friendship is a gift, but it's also from God, right? Thinking about how God has put those specific people in my life and gave those specific people, those specific abilities to pour into me in a certain way. I think sometimes I've stopped, my looking at the person and the expectation lies on them, whether they're capable of, or not, instead of recognizing like, God, thank you for putting this friend in my life.

[00:14:37] Thank you for giving them the ability to show up for me in this way, 

[00:14:40] Jenna: In a way it kind of reminds me of all of his different characteristics, that is imparted in us as humans, like the, that joyful friend, that compassionate friend that weeps with you, , that friend that can help you fix a problem, that friend will just walk you through it, right?

[00:14:56] God shows up to us in all these different ways, and it is a gift that he gives us friends. And sometimes our family members are our friends too. Like he gives us different people in our life that, that embody those characteristics more so. And we can see him through that and see him providing through that gift through that person, which is really neat. 

[00:15:20] Erin: So what's your thoughts on when expectations seem to be more than just like we're talking about them in this gentle way. Like I expected someone to be this way, but I think when expectations are kind of expressed or kind of laid on people have you experienced any of that?

[00:15:39] And have you felt like, what do I do when I'm expected to show up this way? And I can't, whether it's because you have a big family. I have a family, like whether it's because of that or whether it's because whatever the, the reasoning have you experienced.

[00:15:53] Jenna: Yeah. In a few different ways. I have I do remember a moment a very, very good friend of mine. Now I have four kids and we have been very good friends for a long time. And I remember this one point that she was going through a hard time. She was fostering some children and she had turned to me and said, I don't feel like. You're there for me. And I remember being really taken back. Like what, you know, as a, as a person who is really there for people and had been there for her as to my abilities, I had no idea that she was experiencing this feeling and I had to really think about it and I, and I realized, , to my capacity to, in my frame of mind, I, I was there for her.

[00:16:40] But I also, I am human and I have a certain amount of capacity, and her and I, we had a tender moment and I did actually apologize for not being there in the way that she expected me to be. And then I, and. This was a really long time ago. So even to what those expectations are, I'm sure we talked about it, but it just, it was very jarring to me to think that someone was thinking that but also it was a realization that I'm in a different season of life and that happens a lot, I think, especially maybe in motherhood too. And I remember actually being a young mom and an, A mom mentored me and she had a lot of kids and I remember feeling at a point became a lot more absent in my life and I never vocalized it at the time, but later it seemed to turn around, the same thing happened to me where it's like, you're just busy or spread thin. You do what you can, but you have a big family. More recently, I did have expectations put on me that I had no idea were happening. That were more toxic and not appropriate. And And that was heartbreaking and that was heartbreaking because I expected this person that I trusted to be a very good friend and to be honoring and I had no idea that she was having all these other feelings and that had different expectations and it took a really long time for me to find out what those were and there was no way I could meet those and so I think it's important that when we come to a fork in the road with friendships, where if you feel like your expectations are not being met, like, my friend was really brave back then to communicate those to me. And I'm glad that she did because then we could connect on it. Because then I can say, Oh, I had no idea you were feeling that way. I love you so much. What can I do, to help you? Or, this isn't really my capacity right now. And it doesn't mean I'm not there for you. It's just that, it's a challenging season for me as well. And so I think that, If we can be honest with each other, I think that really helps to manage expectations because then, you know, it's not for a poor intention, you know, or it's not because they forgot about you or ignoring you. It's really, a season of life or something like that. And then in the other example, like, had this other friend come to me a long time before things fester for her. I do think we could have resolved it so much, so much better. Unfortunately that friendship is broken, and something that I had to grieve over. And I think that those are two really big differences. And then there's the one with me when I was a young mom. Like, where is my friend that was mentoring me for a long time?

[00:19:02] I can now in hindsight say, Oh, this, this is what it's like to have a big family. And this is the, this is what it takes. I'm amazed at what she even was able to do in my life. And I'm thankful for what she was able to give. And sometimes I wish I could open a door to people in my life and show them what it looks like to be a mom of four kids. And to see how much it really takes of us. How much time, how much energy, how much brain power really takes to serve your home? Well but I can't, the only thing I can do is let them into my life and hopefully they see it. And then we all have grace for each other in different seasons of our

[00:19:38] 

[00:19:40] Erin: in what you just said and all of those examples. And I just, I love how you shared all that. And I, I'm thinking even to just how you said, even the friendship that went really well, that she came to you and said, like, you're not showing up for me. It sounds like you handled that really well and had a great conversation and all of that.

[00:19:58] But I'm just even thinking for like being that friend that you said you felt that I felt that, how do we handle that with friends? So they don't feel like they're on the defensive and have to prove like you said, if you knew what it was like to be in my home and how much brainpower it takes and energy and the times I'm driving places and all of that kind of stuff, instead of being on the defensive.

[00:20:18] If, when each of us feel that like this person's not showing up in the way that I need, that we could actually look at it and say like, what is it that I need? And is it something that I can express to somebody? Like, I really need help in this way. I need someone to listen to me. I need someone.

[00:20:37] To pick up my kid from school. Instead of that judgment of like, you weren't there when I need you, because those expectations weren't necessarily discussed. And I find that in friendship for me, it's like, when we look back on. What the friendship has been. We're like laying a foundation of what we expect in the future.

[00:20:57] Instead of saying like, this is the expectation I have for you. And then if somebody's life changes, that expectation remains without the communication necessarily of saying, I can no longer meet that expectation because of this in my life. And so I don't know. I'm just even just thinking through like, how do I on, that side of like, yes, I may be disappointed.

[00:21:18] Communicate that to someone, what my need is instead of what my expectation that they didn't meet that wasn't necessarily written out of what they should know. 

[00:21:28] Jenna: that's a, those are really good thoughts and questions. I think it all stems from sharing with how you're feeling. Ahead of time. We're kind of talking about being more proactive about it. So what I think is so many of us want to seem like we have it all together and we can do all the carpools and we can do all the things right as a mama for, I am very open with, I need help. Can someone please help me get my kid to soccer? Because my other kid has baseball and my other kid has dance and X, Y, Z. And I have never really been afraid of asking for help, but I've noticed that other people in my life are, I've noticed other moms are, and even though I'd be willing to help them, it's rarely that I know that they actually would need help. So I think that that's on a surface level, but on a deeper level, I think it's really important to share to a friend, Hey, I'm feeling super overwhelmed with my life right now. And I really need someone to talk to. Do you think that you could meet me for a coffee? Do you think that we could have a phone call soon? Because then I think you're coming from an I feel, that I feel statement, right? A not a place of attack. You're coming at a place of like, this is where I'm at and I need help. The more vulnerable I think we can be. The more it gives other people the opportunity to respond and help and use that gift of friendship and use their strength and or learning that strength that they need to learn to be a good friend to us. But unless we share that, there is no way for them to know, that we're in need of X, Y, Z, or that this is now our stage of life. And I think in the opposite is true too. So if someone's coming to you. And saying, I needed you and you weren't there. I think too, like how I was with my friend.

[00:23:12] I was taken back and it took me a while to really think about it. And did I really think that I wasn't there for, I don't really know. I think I just. was hurting, saw she was struggling and saw that she needed me and I wanted to comfort her and be there for her. And so I think in that moment, looking at that person and where they're at, like they're coming at you not as an attack, but as an they're struggling, right?

[00:23:37] They're

[00:23:37] hurting and you're their friend. So instead of taking it defensively, I think whether that's an, I'm so sorry, I had no idea, or it's a being honest about where you're at, like, it's not intentional, I'm really overwhelmed with my job or whatever it is. Because then you can meet each other on the, on the same level and they can understand and they can have more grace too for where you're at. So I guess my answer is being honest and being vulnerable. 

[00:24:05] Erin: I think in that softness and that receiving that, like, not a, not a defense, but receiving it in that way and being honest with who you are and, and knowing who you are and what you're capable of, 

[00:24:20] can even just, not that it's an education and friendship, but they can get to know you. They can kind of be educated in, in who you are and what your limits. And I think it's really an example and an opportunity for us to point to God in a need where we can't show up instead of someone being disappointed that we didn't meet an expectation.

[00:24:38] Because again, I think that expectation goes back to an underlying need. I think we can actually say like. I wish that I could show up in this way and I see that you have a need here. Like, you know, we can meet them in that empathy, but then also be like, you know, unfortunately I'm not capable of filling that need, but

[00:24:56] God is.

[00:24:56] And, and even just back to what you said earlier, I have a friend that I call when I need someone to cry with. And I have a friend that I'm going to call when I need a Bible verse and I have someone who I'm going to call when I need a song, , you know, those people Instead of putting the pressure on one person to fill your need to look to God and be like, okay, if this person's not going to be able to be there for me, how have you provided in another way?

[00:25:18] God, and just because we feel like we need someone to sit with us in that moment, doesn't mean we'll have a physical friend to sit with us in that moment. But I do think that, God sees us in our need and he provides in some way 

[00:25:29] Jenna: Mm-Hmm.

[00:25:30] Erin: those moments that we don't feel like we have our need met.

[00:25:33] Our need may be met in a different way. 

[00:25:36] Jenna: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And sometimes that's, that, that's that push to connect deeper to God, right? Is that when you're really in despair and, you don't have someone, filling that space that you really, really need, it is an opportunity to pray and ask God for help and ask God to send you somebody in your path, or, know, just if you really, really need him or you need comfort or whatever it is it's an element of trust. And then I have seen, and I'm sure you have too, where, God does end up showing up in some way in some person that you didn't expect. And it ends up being exactly what you needed at that moment. So I think. I think that that is that's very true and very relevant that we can't expect 1 person to fulfill all those things.

[00:26:21] And in fact, that's unhealthy truly. And we do have to have our, our boundaries as well. So as much as we want to be there for people or have other be there. For us, we can't fill no 1 can do that. And it's. We're not supposed to

[00:26:35] we're supposed to walk through life together and have community and celebrate each other and go through things together and have each other to lean on for sure, but we can't be everything to everyone.

[00:26:45] And I think also, I'm trying to remember who first said this, but, you have people in your life and you have people in your front yard, they're friends, they're, they're not the people that you're going to be, sharing the most vulnerable things with, but they're people in your life that you care about. They care about you. Yay. And then, but then you have the people on your front porch and that's your closer circle that you invite into your daily life or your regular life.

[00:27:08] And then you have people inside your house. That know what's going on in your life in an even deeper way or in your heart that when you're really going through a hard time, they're the ones you go to. So I feel like these circles of people, that they get big, that bigger that are bigger.

[00:27:21] There are more people that you can rely on. Because not, not 1 person can, can possibly fill what we need. 

[00:27:27] Erin: Friends, thanks so much for joining us today. If you are encouraged, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss part two of my conversation with Jenna Schroeder. in that episode, Jenna and I will be sharing some of our experiences with broken friendship

[00:27:40] and how experiencing the brokenness brought us to growth. And understanding of our deep need for God.

[00:27:47] If you want to connect with me, you can find me at ErinMichelle. net That's Michelle with one L. There you'll find links to all my socials, as well as be able to sign up to receive my free gift, What's My Next Step.

[00:28:00] This is a Bible journaling resource to help you

[00:28:03] look at places in your life where you can continue to take steps to trusting the Lord more fully. I hope you join us back here next time, but until then, I wanted to leave you with this reminder from Ephesians 2 10 for we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them friends.

[00:28:22] I'm praying for you as you keep on stepping.